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Applying Wing Chun principles

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Applying Wing Chun principles
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Procyona



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СообщениеДобавлено: 21.02.2013, 21:31    Заголовок сообщения: Re: training report to 21th Ответить с цитатой

Martin писал(а):
I´m not sure if I should attack firs or wait on oponent move first. What do you think?


Why would you want to wait, Martin? Do you have a reason in mind?   

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Martin



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СообщениеДобавлено: 21.02.2013, 23:18    Заголовок сообщения: Re: training report to 21th Ответить с цитатой

Procyona писал(а):
Martin писал(а):
I´m not sure if I should attack firs or wait on oponent move first. What do you think?


Why would you want to wait, Martin? Do you have a reason in mind?


Yes I have, even if you are sure that there will be problem, if you will attack first, you can be as a martial student charged especially if you hurt someone. You really have to know what you are doing.   
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Haveunique
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СообщениеДобавлено: 21.02.2013, 23:20    Заголовок сообщения: Re: training report to 21th Ответить с цитатой

Martin писал(а):
Procyona писал(а):
Martin писал(а):
I´m not sure if I should attack firs or wait on oponent move first. What do you think?


Why would you want to wait, Martin? Do you have a reason in mind?


Yes I have, even if you are sure that there will be problem, if you will attack first, you can be as a martial student charged especially if you hurt someone. You really have to know what you are doing.


Martin, what is the specific situation you refer to?
Also, please specify how you apply the principles you wrote in your report.
Thank you.   

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Martin



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СообщениеДобавлено: 21.02.2013, 23:51    Заголовок сообщения: Wing Chun principles Ответить с цитатой

About Wing Chun principles. I will try to be short and accurate.

1, relax => breath
First principle means for me that I should relax my body (muscles) and mind (be concetrated) I can be faster if I will do it properly.

2, cover sour central line, disrupt oponents one
It´s imaginery line which goes from head down to the ground. If I´m cover it I´m covering my stability and important organs of my body. It works in same way with oponent.

3, watch oponents elbows and knees
It´s easyier watch comming elbow or knees (they are slower) then fist or foot.

4, be everytime in stance
It helps me with my stability and it helps cover my central line.

5, keep distance
Don´t be to close or too far. I should be close enought to attack and far enought to protect myself.

6, fight on blind site (try get there)
It is place which is somehow convinient for me and inconvinient for my oponent. It´s conected with keeping a distance.

About aplication of Wing Chun. I can see there potencial to learn more about body mind coordination. So far I realized that I sometimes trying focus on breathing. What I realized more is that I´m playing with my hands when I´m thinking about parts of Shil Lim Tao.

I´m not sure if I should attack first or wait on oponent move first. What do you think? I mean person who actually start with attack is in advantage he/she is putting stress. Sometime it´s so big that there is just one punch and end. So put it short. Do you think that if I would be pretty sure that someone will attack me, should I attack first or wait in any cases?   
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Haveunique
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СообщениеДобавлено: 22.02.2013, 00:09    Заголовок сообщения: Re: Wing Chun principles Ответить с цитатой

Martin писал(а):

I´m not sure if I should attack first or wait on oponent move first. What do you think? I mean person who actually start with attack is in advantage he/she is putting stress. Sometime it´s so big that there is just one punch and end. So put it short. Do you think that if I would be pretty sure that someone will attack me, should I attack first or wait in any cases?


Thank you, Martin! Unfortunately, I cannot answer your question... you should ask Milla, she's already got experience.

All I can say that by training our inner state to be present here and now, we have a better chance to react in a way that would be better for us. No one knows the future, so there is no way to know someone's actions beforehand.   

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Martin



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СообщениеДобавлено: 22.02.2013, 00:31    Заголовок сообщения: Re: Wing Chun principles Ответить с цитатой

Haveunique писал(а):
Martin писал(а):

I´m not sure if I should attack first or wait on oponent move first. What do you think? I mean person who actually start with attack is in advantage he/she is putting stress. Sometime it´s so big that there is just one punch and end. So put it short. Do you think that if I would be pretty sure that someone will attack me, should I attack first or wait in any cases?


Thank you, Martin! Unfortunately, I cannot answer your question... you should ask Milla, she's already got experience.

All I can say that by training our inner state to be present here and now, we have a better chance to react in a way that would be better for us. No one knows the future, so there is no way to know someone's actions beforehand.


Thank you Tetyana for respond. I agree with you. I was thinking about it now and so far I believe that I would wait for first attack. But as you said hard to tell and hard to predict.   
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Procyona



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СообщениеДобавлено: 22.02.2013, 15:49    Заголовок сообщения: Re: Wing Chun principles Ответить с цитатой

Martin, is the situation you talk about of practise in the hall, or somewhere else? Where do you imagine this to happen?   
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Martin



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СообщениеДобавлено: 24.02.2013, 11:50    Заголовок сообщения: Re: Wing Chun principles Ответить с цитатой

Procyona писал(а):
Martin, is the situation you talk about of practise in the hall, or somewhere else? Where do you imagine this to happen?


I mean these situations out of the training hall. For me there is the different you can expect them I saw it several times and about three times in my life I experience it on my own skin. I was sure that something happend (finaly it wasn´t so bad I was walking with blue eye once) but in this situations one should know what to do. I don´t like this kind of uncertainty and this is one of the questions which come to my mind sometimes. What I would do?   
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Procyona



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СообщениеДобавлено: 24.02.2013, 21:30    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

In my point of view, you will never know what will happen, and when the time comes, you would anyway act according to the situation, not trough past decicions. Always do the best in the situation you are in, that is enough - at least I believe so. Smile   
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Martin



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СообщениеДобавлено: 27.02.2013, 18:52    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Procyona писал(а):
In my point of view, you will never know what will happen, and when the time comes, you would anyway act according to the situation, not trough past decicions. Always do the best in the situation you are in, that is enough - at least I believe so. Smile


Maybe you are right Milla. I was thinking that if I practising something for a long time I can do it even under strong stress. The same thing in case of habits. I will tell you after I will have recent experience I´m also curious. Smile   
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Fanda



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СообщениеДобавлено: 28.02.2013, 11:29    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

PRINCIPLES OF WING CHUN which I learned and which I am still working on.

Body and stance forty five degrees
-target of your opponent is getting smaller and we are more protected!

Protect your center line
-center of body is most important, if we open our center line , we can get the punch directly there.

Breathing helps
-in stressfull situation or just when we need to be more concentrated or when we are out of energy breathing is key to get our situation better!

Wing chun is one movement
-all excercises in wingchun are made as a one movement and fluently. It is done because nobody is waiting for us in real situation.

Be relaxed
-to be relaxed is key to save energy and key to be faster. Relaxed body is also important when we fall or when we are dropped on the ground.

Watch the elbows and knees
-watching elbows is giving us chance to see punches sooner than when we are watching other parts body of the oponent.

Go to the blind side
-when we go to blind side it helps us to be on more safety place, also we can have big advantage in comparation with oponent.   
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Haveunique
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СообщениеДобавлено: 28.02.2013, 12:11    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Martin писал(а):
Procyona писал(а):
In my point of view, you will never know what will happen, and when the time comes, you would anyway act according to the situation, not trough past decicions. Always do the best in the situation you are in, that is enough - at least I believe so. Smile


Maybe you are right Milla. I was thinking that if I practising something for a long time I can do it even under strong stress. The same thing in case of habits. I will tell you after I will have recent experience I´m also curious. Smile

Martin, during the training, are you always relaxed and in control? Do you know what you are doing and why at any moment? Keep in mind that during our trainings the stress doze is usually very moderate Cool   

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Martin



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СообщениеДобавлено: 28.02.2013, 17:02    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Haveunique писал(а):
Martin писал(а):
Procyona писал(а):
In my point of view, you will never know what will happen, and when the time comes, you would anyway act according to the situation, not trough past decicions. Always do the best in the situation you are in, that is enough - at least I believe so. Smile


Maybe you are right Milla. I was thinking that if I practising something for a long time I can do it even under strong stress. The same thing in case of habits. I will tell you after I will have recent experience I´m also curious. Smile

Martin, during the training, are you always relaxed and in control? Do you know what you are doing and why at any moment? Keep in mind that during our trainings the stress doze is usually very moderate Cool


I thing we are talking about the same thing but maybe we don´t understand each other. I believe that everything what I´m learning in training hall can somehow help me. In this particular example I was wondering how long can it take to improve my reflexes (I know it depends on person, but how it was in you case).

No I´m not relaxed and to be it will take me a lot effort.

Whole this discussion begun because of principles. I was asking myself and then you what is better...always wating for oponent or be the one who will put the pressure. And this question I thing should be answer at the begining.   
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Procyona



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СообщениеДобавлено: 28.02.2013, 20:53    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

In my point of view, the main pirinciples of Wing Chun are as follows.
1. Centerline - centerline is the imaginary line in the center of the body, that holds the main organs and most of the weak spots of the body. One needs to protect the centerline, but also attacks to the opponents centerline. The centerline is where you face is forward to. The hand in most blocks work best when done along the centerline.
2. Relaxation - This means not a complete relaxation, but only using the muscles that are needed. When relaxed, the movements become lighter and faster, and reactions more natural.
3. Blindside - Bilndside is a situation or place where you can hit the opponent, but he or she cannot hit you. It can be achieved by blocking the hands so that the opponent can't use them, or going on his backside. It is done so that you are in the better position than the opponent.
4. Balance - You have balance when you have weight evenly on both sides of the centerline (centerline is also the centerline of balance). When balanced, you can go in any way you wish, backwards, to the side, or forward.
5. 45 degrees - if the centerline is the 90 degrees than the body is turned in 45 degrees. This allows both better defence of the centerline (it is further from the opponent) but it also allows attacking at the same time.
6. Hitting straight - When you hit straight, from centerline to centerline, that is the shortest distance between two points.
7. Watch elbows - Elbows move slower than the knuckles, when someone hits you. If you watch the elbows, you are more likely to see the hit coming.
8. Breath - Meaning breathing though the nose and blowing out from the mouth, with even but quite fast a tempo. This is done in order to got the blood circulation in control, as breathing affects the volume of blood the heart pumps. It is done when ever there is a uncomfortability, and the tempo is kept even, and the bigger the uncomfort, the faster the tempo. Also, when breathin through nostrils you are more aware of the breathing in comparison to breathing through mouth.
9. Attacking and defending at the same time - most effectife way to reach the blind side and keep opponent busy at the same time.
10. Optimum distance - If too close, the opponent can hit you well, and you cannot use the hands in an optimum way, and cannot control the centerline. If too far, you cannot reach, and the blocks become ineffectife. Keeping an optimum distance lessens the feetwork (you don't have to walk too much around the opponent) and near enough to control the situation, but also keeps you safe.
11. Control elbows - Elbows are the weak poits of the arm, because if you move them it's hard to resist the movement. This again keep you safe from that hand, (and you can concentrate on the other one), and it hepls you to get to the blindside faster and safer. When needed, it's important to take control of elbows as soon as possible.
12. Continuous movement - When the movement stop it takes an additional energy to start it again, and when there is continuity, it is easier to reach the target you want to reach. With continuity you keep that target in mind all the time, and don't go on sidetracks.
13. Awareness - This mean that you are present in the moment, and know where you are, how you feel and what you are doing. It also means that you are aware of the presense, and don't wander in the future or in the past. This helps to react on the situation, not based on the presumptions or feelings, but the actual things happening.

Again, everyone, feel free to comment and correct Smile   

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"Believe in yourself. Keep writing." - Neil Gaiman   
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Haveunique
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СообщениеДобавлено: 28.02.2013, 22:01    Заголовок сообщения: Ответить с цитатой

Martin, in your very first question you are asking other people to tell you what to do in your imaginary situation Smile Smile My suggestion is - get real, be here and now Smile and do the best you can with what you have. This discussion is going great Smile Smile   
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