[Procyona]

I have noticed during wing chun training, that power and force are not the same thing. But yet I don't quite get where the power generates from.

I think the power to hits and other movements comes from relaxing all unnessesary muscles. Then the movements is fastest, and most free, but also harbors more momentum than one with tension. I have also noted that the more I use the movement of the body, the less force I have to apply to hand movements.

But I don't know if this all actually leads to powerful hits. What do you think?   

[Fanda]

I heard few things about local power and dynamic power.....It came from shaolin monks. But I agree with you Milla that power come from relaxation!   

[Procyona]

Interesting Fanda, can you tell more of these local and dynamic powers?   

[Fanda]

Milla, I was looking for more info about Power in martial arts and I found this: (source is http://www.usashaolintemple.org/press/the-power-of-the-punchblack-belt-magazine/)

Power

The Chinese martial arts teach four levels of power: tui li (pushing power), baofa li (explosive power), qun li (inch power) and tou li (penetrating power).

Pushing power is the simplest. Children learn how to use it on the playground. To push someone away takes no skill; a true martial arts master would probably never use this power in a fight unless he was trying to avoid hurting his opponent.

Explosive power is stronger and for the most part self-explanatory.

Inch power is much more advanced. With it, you can explode your power with only one inch between your fist and the target. You need not draw your hand back before striking.

Penetrating power is the rarest because it is the hardest to develop. With your hand touching your opponent you can use your energy to penetrate his body. After the strike, the front surface of the body will look untouched, but his internal organs will be destroyed and a bruise will appear on the opposite side.

Before exploring ways to use these levels of power in your punches, it is useful to rectify a few incorrect beliefs:
Some martial artists think that the punching power is best gained through striking a heavy bag. Remember that you can show a heavy bag power, but it cannot show you a thing. Heavy bags do have their place, of course. The best method for using one is to start with a lightweight model and graduate to a heavier model as you learn how to project power through your fist.

Others believe that the harder they tense their arms during a strike, the more power they produce. Be forewarned that you can seriously injure yourself with this kind of practice because stress is a negative force. The more relaxed your mind and body are, the better. You must stay relaxed all the way through the punch, and that takes mental and physical discipline.   

[Haveunique]

Fanda, thanks, sounds very interesting, have you tried any of the described power definitions? And what about your own definition?   

[Domestus]

The power of a punch isn't generated by the hand alone. For example, boxers always twist their middle body during a punch (that isn't a jab) to benefit from as many muscles as possible in the move.

On the other hand, in Wing Chun we seem to gather our power from elsewhere and the punches concentrate on good maneuverability and speed rather than highest possible power per punch.

I believe that Milla is on the right track with the relaxation of distractive muscles, although this doesn't seem very obvious to me. I think that there's also something to do with bringing the arm to your center and thus somehow gaining more support from rest of your body.   

[Domestus]

I found a video where the straight punch is explained really well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvh8EGzW160
edit: Ah this video was already posted on another thread. Sorry about that.   

[Fanda]

About my own definition?

Because I do not know much about that I was searching on the internet. By my words I can say that: Big power can come from person who is concentrated and not under stress, when are muscless relaxed and not in tense. Next fact what I understand is that speed and power are working together, just try to hammer a nail with slow hits and after with fast hit..... it is called surprisingly hammer effect Fast hit can be more destructive than slower one with muscles under stress. This is that explosive power. About source... everything is pointing me to the relaxation, but I have feeling that there should be something more but still don´t know what.   

[Procyona]

Well, only relaxation does not nessesary mean power, but with a correct technique it can be turned into power. That is why we practise walking 45 and balancing our body (also aligning the sticks as in the video Lasse posted), they are the source of a balanced center power can be built on.   

[Procyona]

In physics, force (F) comes from the equation m x a (mass times accelaration). So, in addition to speed (accelaration), the mass of the person affects, too. So, in this sense the movement of the body comes in play: if the body works as a whole system, it situates the mass of the body behind the hitting hand. That is one of the reasons we walk while attacking or blocking.

So, if the body works together, the more powerful the hist and movements are. And the stance of the body, the balance and how one uses it affects the power, because they affect on how the body is working together in general.

What do you think? Lasse, do you think this might be what you were looking for in addition to relaxation?   

[Procyona]

I noticed that the more I relax any other part expect elbow, the easier the movements in hits become. With this, the hits just dart straight forward, like arrows. The strange thing is, if I try to make a powerful blow, my hands tense and I loose the relaxation. So, in order to have power, I need to let go of the idea of having it.   

[Procyona]

Here is a very good article about the power of a hit.

http://www.martial-art-potential.com/punching.html

What stroke me most is that in the article they had actually calculated that the power of a hit comes:

1. Leg power – (power turns into speed) – 39%

2. Rotation power - (power turns into speed) – 36%

3. Arm power – (power turns into speed) - 25%

In Wing Chun I learn to use the leg power, moving the body mass behind the hits. But do we have rotation power? In the article this refers to turning your torso and hip, which I have not countered in Wing Chun yet. Even though I can turn the hip slightly to aid a hit, it can also have downsides: when you turn, you turn away from the center line, from the optimal position.

Also, the structure behind the hit carries the weight of the hit, too (according to the physics presented in the article). That is why position and hand structures are important in the hits as well

also, more of the wing chun punch behind the link:
http://www.wingchunlife.com/wing-chun-punch.html